CD not mounting on real hardware

When I build Gena and boot it in VirtualBox, all is well.

When copy the contents of %BaseDir%\Iso\HDDBoot to a USB stick wwith Grub4DOS installed, add SETUPLDR.BIN, and boot on real hardware:

Code: [Select]

title Gena WimBoot
chainloader /I586/SETUPLDR.BIN
the CD doesn't get mounted and, of course, most of my programs are inaccessible.

This used to work, and hasn't for several weeks if not a month or two.

??

As explained here http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=323.0 I don't use direct boot like you,

maybe helps, don't forget
CD.DRIVE
file (flag file) at the root of your usb etc.

nothing changed on these matters for several months etc. (check history log, you will see) Galapo and I quite busy for months now 

Yes, that's right. The flag file is essential for correct links.

Regards,
Galapo.

Booting the ISO doesn't work, because it's not contiguous on the drive. (This is my multiboot drive and I have lots of ISOs on it).

Doesn't booting the ISO get it mapped into memory, and then the WIM is mapped into memory and booted? Seemas a little wasteful to me.

The flag file is there, but the drive doesn't mount. I'll try a build with only one or two apps and none of mine.

Doesn't booting the ISO get it mapped into memory, and then the WIM is mapped into memory and booted? Seemas a little wasteful to me.

If the --mem parameter is specified, the ISO is mapped to memory and then booted (in this case it does not need to be contiguous). Without the --mem parameter, the ISO is accessed directly from the drive and booted (in this case it needs to be contiguous). I don't think any more memory is used in the latter case with regard to copying the contents to the drive and booting directly from there.

Regards,
Galapo.

OK, but it still seems to me that with WIM boot I wind up with an ISO mapped in memory and a WIM mapped to memory. No?

I don't think any more memory is used in the latter case with regard to copying the contents to the drive and booting directly from there.

To test the difference between using mem and not using mem option of grub4dos,
check "physical memory" , "Total"
ex:
Siw (Gabriel Topala)->Hardware->System Info

OK, but it still seems to me that with WIM boot I wind up with an ISO mapped in memory and a WIM mapped to memory. No?

I feel the word "wind up" is not correct, I prefer "pack up" 
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/wind-sb-up_1?q=wind+up#wind-sb-up_1__1
since all packed up nicely, no need to worry details about extracting the ingredients of iso,
(I personally prefer that way)
like linux distributions, rest of things goes nice 

The difference is only about using -mem or not (grub4dos), with "packed up" iso,
make above test, you will see the advantage of not using -mem on wimboot+bootdi,
(+ well for createiso, -mem can be advantageous, up to personal preference.... This time check total memory and Gena work speed.... ;) )
(+ linux distributions also have using mem or not option on their boot-menu  for same reason above...)
besides if you have lots of ram (todays pc ;), >= 512MB) using -mem do not hurt

I put both options to my personal menu.lst for all kind of packed up Gena iso files  to keep at hand 
Besides not really needed -mem option for a loooong while, since files always contigious here.
(Some years ago I manually forced to get none-contigious to make tests, and observed contigious is very important for grub4dos, even sometimes with -mem switch............ very old tests, I can not say valid for latest grub4dos.
Besides so far seen not using mem, contigious is still a must)

Reminding: Gena\WriteMedia\"Tutorial Gena Disk Boot"->Read ME ->"USB" subfolder, there are ready batch files to easly make iso contigious, if possible 


 

OK, I tested booting the Gena_WIM ISO by your method:

Code: [Select]

title Gena_WIM.iso (0xFF) (hd0,0)
root (hd0,0)
map /Gena_WIM.iso (0xFF) || map --mem /Gena_WIM.iso (0xFF)
map --hook
chainloader (0xFF)
and the same problem comes up.  The CD doesn't mount and the majority of programs are inaccessible. There is a CD.DRIVE file in the root:

OK, I tested booting the Gena_WIM ISO by your method:

yep, on that method, I do not use any runfromcd option ;), everything on ram (everthing inside wim), but I see you do...

and the same problem comes up.  The CD doesn't mount and the majority of programs are inaccessible. There is a CD.DRIVE file in the root:

on your case, you have files on cd (iso) ....

here is a quick workaround solution:
extract "GenaPrograms" folder, CD.DRIVE file rootof your drive (on picture I:)
and for other files, you can mount Gena_Wim.iso with imdisk ...











More words:
This is same situation with here
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=328

Above Workaround has advantage and disadvantage:
 -  some waste on space (GenaPrograms folder both in .iso and outside, you can delete the one on .iso part if you need space......)
 + it is easier to set booting iso (we discussed earlier...)


Recently we discussed with ChrisR to develop a feature to make this ".iso boot" situations easier for end user, same feature will also exist on Gena,
ChrisR away for a while, maybe meanwhile Galapo can make some trials if/when he has time.... 




I hope this helps, let me know
See you

Hi JonF,

In the Grub4Dos test you did above, was WinVBlock driver included in the build. I think it is needed to be able to identify and mount Grub4Dos mem disks.

Regards,
Galapo.

No, I didn't have WinVBlock. I'll try it with that. But I bet I never had WinVBlock enabled, and the "CD" mounted as a CD drive, not drive Y or X, rather the first available letter. This used to work, and it still works in VirtualBox. So I doubt the problem is the absence of any particular script or setting. It's possible that it's the presence of some script or setting, but my recent tests have been with none of my apps enabled and only one or two Gena apps enabled.

Here's the results of a run with WinVBlock enabled. Note that it still works in VirtualBox, but on real hardware looks as if it tried to mount the "CD" but failed. (Damn, can't remove the mistaken double-posting of attachments).

JonF,

on virtual box, are you using Emulated-Cd ??  (if no, how do you prepare your virtual box test ?)
on real hardware are you using Real-Cd ??

I'm not sure what you mean by "emulated CD'. In VirtualBox I have the ISO mounted as a IDE CD. Most of my real hardware tests are done by booting from USB, on my Toshiba Satellite or a Dell E4200 at the office or a Gateway MA7 at the office. I've done it booting from a real CD with the same problem, although I haven't tried that for a while.

I'm not sure what you mean by "emulated CD'. In VirtualBox I have the ISO mounted as a IDE CD.

This means you emulate CD (you did not emulatore "bootloader+ISO"), with your words:
ISO mounted as a IDE CD ---- on real hardware means ----> Using Real CD
with other words:
on your Emulator (Virtual Box) you are emulating condition of Real Hardware + Real CD
it works in your Virtual Box
it will work in your Real Hardware too when you use Real CD

Most of my real hardware tests are done by booting from USB,

IF your real hardware tests done by booting from UFD (USB-Flash Disk) or USB-Harddisk by "bootloader+ISO" , than your results are expected.
IF you real hardware tests done by booting from USB-CD (=Real CD) , please report.

I've done it booting from a real CD with the same problem, although I haven't tried that for a while.

I guess this sentence clears....

I believe (with your previous posts)
Your Real-Hardware tests are with booting .iso from disk via a bootloader (grub4dos, isolinux etc.)


ISO mounted as a IDE CD ---- on real hardware means ----> Using Real CD ,
it does not mean booting .iso from disk via a bootloader (grub4dos, isolinux etc.)

You make wrong test with your emulator, since you change conditions, as expected you get different results.


Summary:
Real Hardware + Real CD == Emulator (Virtual Box) + ISO mounted as a IDE CD
Real Hardware + "bootloader+ISO" === Emulator (Virtual Box) + "bootloader+ISO"

"bootloader+ISO" IS NOT Real CD on Real Hardware
"bootloader+ISO" IS NOT ISO mounted as a IDE CD on Emulator

To get Correct Emulation tests (if you are curious):
get bootloader (ex: grub4dos) operational on emulator disk,
copy ISO file to emulator disk,
test with bootloader,
you will see same results.



Your realhardware failure is NOT new,
since very first days of ramdisk.sys with bootsdi,
and today with BootDI with winvblock or firadisk, or with WimBoot,
and even with latest MS products like in Win7PESE ,
you will get same what you call failure.

Better say your "expectation" instead of "failure" ;) since this is a "by design" feature. (..... keeping short....)

TigerWhite on other topic also mixed things too, I would not expect from an old rifle like you 



If I could explain what you missing,
please read my older posts (and relevant link in my post) on current topic again, you will see I talk about bootloader+ISO conditions and informations that way. 




edit: minor adding to clear

Most of that I don't understand.

It used to work.

It does not work anymore.

Something has changed.

Most of that I don't understand.

I hope Galapo or any other can explain better, since I can not write better all the way on this topic.........

It used to work.

It does not work anymore.

"BootLoader+ISO File" have Never worked the way you "expected" (%100).

Something has changed.

I believe Your usb/ufd-hd prepare method for Gena changed,
Instead of trying "BootLoader+ISO File" method which you seem not understand,
do what you've used to do (as far as I know you) "BootLoader+Extracted ISO"


Shortly: Everything working as expected

What Lancelot is saying is that you are emulating running the PE from CD in the virtual machine. That is why it works -- the contents of the CD are accessible by the system.

That is also why when you test outside of the virtual machine it is not working -- the environment has changed. No longer is the test booting from CD, it is now booting an ISO image which itself loads a system image to ram. Hence the contents of the actual CD/ISO are not accessible by the system because the ISO needs to be mounted for that to be the case.

'RunFromCD' option means exactly that -- the files are saved outside of the ram-loading system image. They will be accessible directly from CD (if burned) and from the ISO image (when mounted).

Win7PE SE has encounted a few users wanting to use programs from within an ISO image and ChrisR is coding something for that. We should be able to transfer this to Gena as well. This is much the same as using WimPack with programs -- programs can be located in an image on USB etc. that is mounted at boot.

Regards,
Galapo.

OK, I understand the issue.

I re-downloaded all of Gena, and now my preferred method of copying the HDDBoot files to USB and using Grub4DOS is now working again, with the "on-CD" app shortcuts appearing. It's a mystery.

OK, I understand the issue.

I re-downloaded all of Gena, and now my preferred method of copying the HDDBoot files to USB and using Grub4DOS is now working again, with the "on-CD" app shortcuts appearing. It's a mystery.

It is good to hear you get things back working   
I guess it is a lucky day since ginzu start to get things working too :>
(and no, we do not change anything on server about these matters ;))
If you figure out mystery one day, let us know 

See you