Amazing!! (sub: Build w/XP, aps from usb)

Sorry for creating this topic, but first of all, I wanted to say THANKS! for this amazing new project! It's running on my test laptop as we speak (yes, it's the 512mb hp nc6320).
One of the great things about PESE is of course that it can be customized (to the extreme!), and the way I use it is without "pre-built" apps (so all "apps" are off in Winbuilder), except for my own (autorun) Autohotkey exe, and 150kb worth of TrueImage DLLs.
When PESE boots, autohotkey is (auto-)run and starts to execute autohotkey.ini. At the top of that "script" is some code to load/ register some large console fonts (for my weary old eyes), set the BGInfo background and OSFMount an .iso which contains all my portable aps (incl. TrueImage, TCCLE, ACDSee, WinNTSetup, HWInfo, etc. etc., even the 16mb pack with Excel and Word '97).

Why I'm telling you this? Just for the heck of it, and to let you know I'm sooooo happy with my new "Christmas toy" Win8.1PESE.

But to get back to the question somebody else asked in this new subforum today: Yes, you can start aps from USB directly. There are multiple ways to get this done, mounting an iso is just one of them (I like it because this way, I can maintain and update the portable.iso file seperately, without the need for a rebuild.

A final question: I have some older PC's that I use for specific tasks, one of them is used as a "Winbuilder PC" and runs XP. I always thought it was kind of funny that this (old) XP system could produce the latest W8PESE. But when I tried 8.1PESE on it a few hours ago, it didn't work. So my question is: Is it supposed to work (build) on XP? If not, I guess it might be better to build in some checks to warn the user right at the top...

The error is: "Wiminfo.exe - Error, could not receive image count! Index bigger that the number of Image in install.wim" Still, no biggie, it builds perfectly in Windows 8.1!

Hi Atari800xl,
 
Great Test  , good to know that it can worked on your old PC with 512 Mb of Ram (without all components!)  .

For building on XP, I guess it is the same for Vista, Unfortunately, the latest windows ADK for win8.1 do not longer support them 
Indeed, it would be good to have a control and a message at the beginning in this case 
Or,
We can use for now, ADK for windows 8, It should works.   
I do not know yet for the drivers integration what will be done. I'll watch it in January probably.
For Drivers, Win8.1SE uses drivers hive from install.wim. To use original Win8.1 drivers, we just need to copy drivers files to the right place.
- DriverStore\FileRepository folder, inf file in Windows\inf sys file in System32\drivers, dll in System32,...

Edit: Original NET drivers script do like that to install Atheros, Broadcom, Intel, Realtek or Ralink Net drivers.
To install drivers to a running Win8PE, it should be possible, I hope, to use DPInst (Driver Package Installer).

Maybe it's better to have Win8 ADK for now, for XP compatibility and to change to ADK for Win8.1 later, if needed.

For now on XP, to try and to know, you can copy the following files from win8pese tools\x86 and tools\x64 in win8.1SE:
bcdboot.exe, bcdedit.exe, bootsect.exe, imagex.exe, oscdimg.exe, wimgapi.dll, wimmount.sys, WimMountInstall.exe, wimserv.exe.

Thanks ChrisR, such an honour to receive a reply from "The Master" himself!!!

Having XP compatibily is nice, but of course not very important, as I might be the only one trying to build this with an XP machine. It's just that I have enough spare PC's around (old school PC's), they can still perform a lot of useful tasks (at my job, several of them are in use for checkweighing products, labelprinting on special labelprinters, invoicing, etc.).
That's why I opted for some kind of "Win8.1PESE can not be built on a XP system" warning.
But of course, I will try your suggestion to replace the 8.1 files with the 8(.0) files, and see if that works. I'll test it a bit later...

Once again, thanks for your great job on 8.1, I forgot to say that not having the taskbar is no problem for me at all!!! (I'm using "PE in Ram"). I actually prefer a completely empty desktop, I use Autohotkey keys 99% of the time to start my programs (eg. ctrl-sh-7 launches WinNTSetup to install Windows 7, ctrl-sh-8 for Windows 8, ctrl-sh-1 for 8.1, etc).

So thanks for leaving out the taskbar  now the blue screen looks almost exactly like my Atari 800XL from 1985.

OK ChrisR, I tested your suggestion, and replaced the files.
And of course, it works!!!
Once again: so nice to see that "old XP" is building "shiny new Win8.1PESE"!!! So I still can use these "old XP PC's" to build my iso in the background. Another time saver, like PESE has saved me a lot of hours in the past, and still does now.
[Of course, to be honest we must confess we also like to tinker with scripts etc. for hours and hours, but I like to think of it like this: PESE saves a lot of (paid) work hours, and also provides hours and hours of entertainment in my spare time!
A win-win situation!!!]
 

 
OK, after some testing, I found out that I'd better not add the drivers (Audio/ Original display drivers/ Original NET drivers) if I want to keep on testing on the old nc6320 with 512mb.  Like building 8.1PESE on an XP machine,
I'm probably the only one as well who runs this on 512mb. 
But hey, I like playing around with this stuff...  Besides, if it should ever come up at this forum again, we'll know the details.
So back to memory: when I deselect "Drivers", the nc6320 is left with *just* enough memory to run useful stuff (TrueImage, WinNTSetup, TCCLE, etc). The boot.wim is 224mb in this case. I should also add that the hp nc6320 has its own video RAM, so all of 503mb is left for the OS.
From the taskmanager, free physical memory is 52mb max, from TCCLE it's 54mb max (89% memory load).
  

EDIT: Another option of course (which I just tested) is leaving out Network and PENetwork, which leaves another 25mb free.

Hi Atari800xl,

Original NET drivers is indeed a bit heavy for your available RAM. If I remember, by selecting all it is ~ 75 Mb

Otherwise, I do not know and I'm not sure if Win81SE in PE mode brings an addition relative to Win7 or Win8pese 
There are some trouble, related to the security of Windows 8.1 Some bypassed: IE download with free download manager,  display Icon on desktop with pecmd, Run and Runonce with a small Autoit.
But you do not use it all, I let you judge master Atari   
There are no such trouble with the OS build version but it is slower to start and with an old PC with USB 1.0 you should see it .

AC

Well, of course everybody thinks I'm crazy for using this on the nc6320, but still, it works great for my purpose. OK, I could also use 7pese or 8pese, but I wanted to try 8.1 as well, just to test it.
ChrisR, are you saying 8.1pese is not meant to be run as PE in RAM?!

I use the nc6320 for *lots* of software testing, it has 3 primary partitions (grub4dos starts 1 of them, hides the others), they usually contain w7, w8.1, xp. I use pese from USB constantly, then start WinNTSetup to install one of these OS's (all all one usb). For me this is the perfect way to test software on all of those OS's.
The nc6320 is quite and reasonably fast, and usually sits next to my work PC. I use it as "bottom of the line" to check if software runs on this system reasonably. If it's too slow on this system, it usually doesn't pass QC!

Well, of course everybody thinks I'm crazy for using this on the nc6320, but still, it works great for my purpose.

Crzay I don't know, a bit maybe, like me. In any case, your hardware is really great for testing.

ChrisR, are you saying 8.1pese is not meant to be run as PE in RAM?!

NO, I only warn about the defects I saw.
Without Sp_Star's idea of Win8.1 OS in Ram, I would not have done. Because of the taskbar that is locked in PE  build type.
Personally I do not think I will used this PE version only because of the taskbar that I find important to have.
I prefer for this Win7 or win8pese or Win81se in OS type.

It's only a personal choice but other may like and for your use it must be able do the job. Be free to choose, of course.

Personally I do not think I will used this PE version only because of the taskbar that I find important to have. I prefer for this Win7 or win8pese or Win81se in OS type.

OK, I understand. So I guess we're lucky you even included "PE in Ram", I guess it almost didn't even make it into Win8.1PESE. Maybe somebody will find a solution to the taskbar thing (or some kind of replacement). For me, it's not a problem, for the cases I use it, I know very well which processes are running, I don't need a taskbar for that (hey, it only takes up screenspace  ).

And as you said, we still have 7pese and 8pese. About Windows 8 (the full OS, not PE): Now with 8.1, I really don't have a use for 8(.0) anymore, if I understand correctly 8.1 is a "forced" update, 8.0 will only be supported for 2 more years.
But I'll keep the iso's around, if only for building Win8PESE!

Thanks ChrisR, just tried the second Win8.1PESE release of today, 2013-12-16.
"Thanks" for making the decision to "leave behind" XP as host OS, at least now it's clear...
I made a new build on 8.1 as host OS, with all my adjustments etc, it still runs as nicely as the first version (PE in RAM on low Ram).
 

 
At the same time, I do not really have the choice, the integration of drivers need ADK for Win 8.1 
You know what to do now if you want to build on XP one day. Win8 ADK files + comment  //Run,%scriptfile%,CheckHostOS  in Images configuration.

Thanks ChrisR, I will save your response for future reference.
So, still a tiny bit of "postponement" for XP. Of course, to conclude this topic, if you decide to build on XP, deselect the Driver integration.
And until you tell us otherwise: I will remember that the 8.1 tools are only needed for driver integration (until now), not for other parts of the project.
SOLVED 

It's only a personal choice but other may like and for your use it must be able do the job. Be free to choose, of course.

In Windows 8.1, I've used Classic Shell to add a taskbar. Perhaps, something similar could be done for the PE version.

Classic Shell v4.0.2 is in the latest package Win8.1SE_2013-12-16.
But Classic Shell or other StartMenu replacement does not unlock the taskbar, when the system account is used 
For the taskbar I searched long enough without found anything and others have also tried without success.

For a Win8.1 PE fully functional with the taskbar and others, it is better to use the OS build with the administrator account, I see only advantages 
The only minor disadvantage is the startup just a little bit longer. Tested with an Usb2 stick on 2 laptops, watch in hand:
- the first relatively recent:       PE : 56 seconds - OS : 58 seconds
- an older, Asus EeePC 1005:    PE : 1 Mn 56s    - OS : 2 mn 2s

ChrisR, thanks for making my try the OS Build instead of the PE in RAM build. As you already know, I'm as dumb as a bottle of rocks, so with all my PE experiments and tests, I forgot to test the OS Build...
And to be honest, I didn't even know the build could be switched so easily between the two. I tried the tests on other systems first (not on the minimal RAM laptop) and it's working great!
To my surprise, it also worked on the 512mb laptop. Only thing is: it's just about 10mb short on RAM... Memory load is about 90% (40mb free  ), while the PE build results in 80mb free.  I'm sure I can shave off a few MB's here or there (it's a minimal build already), but I thought this was quite funny...

Please forget this immediately, because there's no point in spending any time on this, most important thing for me is that the OS Build is "Amazing!!!" as well, it's all working so smoothly, you did such a wonderful job in creating this superb project for us!!!!!
(Boot time: 60s for OS - 58s for PE)
(Edit2: Win7PESE: Boot time 48s - memory load 67%!)

Hi Atari800xl,
I like your approach of making the built small ( boot.wim 224M). Wow! how this is possible!!
I also like your way of putting portable apps including TrueImage, separately in portable.iso.
Would you mind describe your process of doing this, or give me some pointer if there is such ...

Thanks in advance.

Well, there's a short answer and a long one...
The short answer: I remove all subfolder from "apps", I only use a tiny script that copies AutoHotkey.exe to the programs folder (so this is the only app for my build). I create an autorun entry for Autohotkey. This program then functions as a "link" between the standard stuff and my "Q.iso", which is just a collection of portable utilitites. "Why?", you ask? Well, this way, I can update that q.iso without having to rebuild my PE. For me this is the perfect solution.
The "magic" little link is autohotkey.ini, which holds all my shortcut keys (so I never have to get adjusted to "strange" keyboard or trackpads: it has happened that I accidentally move folder around on other peoples' PC by just hitting the touchpad too hard!) and a little "autorun" section on top, which does the ISO mounting, console font installing (I like my TCCLE window big!), etc.
So that was the short version: Small boot.wim, autohotkey as link, apps in q.iso (I call it "Q" because that's the driveletter I mount it to).

Here's my favorite aps in q.iso: (131mb, thanks to TreeSize for the list:)
TrueImage2013 39,0 - Officelite 17,6 - PaintShopPro6 10,4 - Sumatra 9,1 - XYPlorer 8,1 - TCCLE 5,9 - WinNTSetup 5,8 - Dism8forW7 4,4 - TrueCrypt 4,3 - PDFEditor 4,3 - ProcMon 2,6 - FSViewer 2,3 - HWInfo32 2,3 - 7zip 2,1 - TotalCommander 1,9 - WinRAR 1,4 - Capture 1,3 - Resizer 1,3 - ACDSee 1,3 - Treesize 1,2 - TightVNC 1,0 - UltraISO 0,9 - Filesync 0,9 - BGInfo 0,8 - WGet 0,4 - Nirsoft 0,3 - NetMeter 0,3 - TSE 0,3 - Console 0,1 - Rufus 0,2 - Search 0,1

Some stuff is in there for fun (Like OfficeLite, which is Word and Excel '97, even though I use those very day!). I love TCCLE (with nice big console fonts by Uwe Sieber), WinNTSetup (JFX!!), XYPlorer (which was a free GiveAway last year!), HWInfo, etc.

Right now I'm doing a lot of XP->W7 installs for people (using PESE, of course), so while those babies are humming, I have some spare time to do some forum reading (/writing)!

I uncheck All Apps, rebuilt it and still no where near 224M?

You want to go too fast...
As our friend Lancelot would say: Ehh, hmm, I'm not sure what he would say, it would be something like "try it out yourself, something something, <insert animated gif>, etc. 
What I mean to say: experiment, try things, look at what each setting does, check the "Components" hive (do you need network?), Drivers, etc. etc. Look at the Projects\Win8PESE\subfolders (eg. Components), the largest scripts usually take the most space, do you need them all? (Flash?, VC Runtimes? I don't need the runtimes, only for Aomei).

Let us know how you're doing...

Atari800xl 

Only mini addition (since usually forgotten by new starters)
 Finals\"PostConfig" -> Compression -> Maximum   
  would get .wim smaller

Although it requires some time, At old times It was always fun to me working on smaller smaller smaller