[Help] Gena Win PE 1 rambooting tutorial

Hello All!

I am a newbie here. I am looking for a tutorial about booting a win PE 2 or 3 from a wim file.

Actually I already built the wim file from Gena project. I also created its iso version and it's running fine in my virtual machine. Previously I have built Win10xPE wim files and they are working great! :-) It's so easy on UEFI interface. But  I am pretty confused with older systems such as Vista and XP.

Ideally I am looking for a step by step guide, that will help me to add necessary resources (including bootmgr entries) to the partition that contains BootDI.wim.

The reason I am doing this exercise is I have an old laptop running vista home prem. It has become very slow. The dvd is slow, the usb is a snail pace 1.1. I intend to decommission the big vista and replace it with a nice quick-n-compact PE.

But the problem is booting from RAM. Can someone please point to an ELI5 guide?

Here is some info about the wim file :
-------------
Gena Source : W2003x86Ent (gena chose this source when I pressed blue button)
WAIK Files source for wimboot : vista_6000.16386.061101-2205-LRMAIK_EN.img
Win2k3 SP1 setupldr.bin source : ...\GetWaikTools\XPRamBoot\
ramdisk.sys wimfltr.sys wimfsf.sys wimgapi.dll source : ...\GetWaikTools\XPWimBoot\
-------------
Is the above wimfile a PE2 or PE3?

Thanks for reading.
-Gamma


Edit:
Lancelot: Topic Title changed
[Help] Gena Win PE 2/3 rambooting tutorial
-->
[Help] Gena Win PE 1 rambooting tutorial

Hello GSTT (Gamma)

Is the above wimfile a PE2 or PE3?

It is PE1 

*
Nikzzzz added WimBoot option, he knows better how or if possible to add with bootmgr entries, maybe he post to current topic....

what I know: you can add grub4dos to your bootmgr and with grub4dos you boot Gena...iso

search internet: add grub4dos to bootmgr

Gena\WriteMedia\"Tutorial Gena Disk Boot" --> ReadME Button -->
It opens both a tutorial html and a folder --> \Tutorial_Boot_Package\USB\ folder you will find a ready grub4dos menu.lst file

after you add grub4dos to bootmgr you can use this ready menu.lst file 
-->
and you will get Gena boot 

Ps: Tutorial is about creating USB bootable + add Grub4dos to USB --> we skip these steps since you already have bootmgr on hd, you can safely and guickly add grub4dos to bootmgr.


*
For your goal,
maybe better to install XP or Win2003 to old pc which will be more comfortable
First Check internet: install XP to Vista PC
eg. not tested: https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/install-windows-xp-on-your-pre-installed-windows-vista-computer/

Following your post you wrote

(gena chose this source when I pressed blue button)

It means Gena autodownload a Win2003 iso,
 and since you have Win2003 iso, you can also install Win2003 to old pc
  Here is step by step tutorial I use for years to install Win2003
   https://web.archive.org/web/20080716043533/http://win2k3.msfn.org/


Be sure you have a bootable PE (usb or iso) around when installing XP to Vista PC to fix troubles you may face
Having ready Bootable Gena usb for old pc is a good idea.
....

See You

Moved topic from "Talk about other things ..." section
http://theoven.org/index.php?board=6.0
to "Gena Support" section
http://theoven.org/index.php?board=2.0
 

Hi Lancelot,

Thank you for a detailed answer! 

Found these things amusing ... 

1.

It is PE1

Now I know where to begin! 

2.

search internet: add grub4dos to bootmgr

I hope it's simple. Fingers crossed! 

3.

It opens both a tutorial html and a folder --> \Tutorial_Boot_Package\USB\ folder you will find a ready grub4dos menu.lst file

Readymade grub? Ready to grab!! 

4.

and since you have Win2003 iso, you can also install Win2003 to old pc

Good idea! Will try on a VM first!

5.

Having ready Bootable Gena usb for old pc is a good idea.

Well, the Vista says it's usb 2.0. But the cmos thinks it's usb 1.1. The load rate is pathetic. Maybe I need to provide a driver...? I need to find out how to do that. Till then hdd is the only reliable supply for the wimfile. 

A big thank you for your inputs.

-Gamma

Well, the Vista says it's usb 2.0. But the cmos thinks it's usb 1.1. The load rate is pathetic. Maybe I need to provide a driver...? I need to find out how to do that. Till then hdd is the only reliable supply for the wimfile. 

AFTER you practice with things before, just an info :

There is plop which solves the case "it's usb 2.0. But the cmos thinks it's usb 1.1"
https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/intro.html
with other words:
 cmos thinks it is usb 1.1, bootmanager plop can make it usb2.0


*
after you create a bootable usb following Gena\WriteMedia\"Tutorial Gena Disk Boot" --> ReadME Button .....

you can add plop to grub4dos menu
see: 3.7. GRUB / grub4dos  at https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/mbrinstall.html#grubinst

when you boot from usb:
first select plop on grub4dos menu (---> this hopefully get your usb to usb2.0)
exit plop --> this will return grub4dos menu
select Gena ... iso --> this will boot Gena .. iso hopefully with usb2.0

something to test on your side, maybe works maybe not, if it works it will be good for you.

OR

you can directly add plop mbr to usb ... but I do not have much practice with plop since I do not have your case here.


**
Tip:
Gena\VirtualTest\qEmu Emulation --> More Options
There is
"List PhysicalDrive" button
after you figure out your ufd number,
under "Boot Disk" button you can change "PhysicalDriveX"
and click "Boot Disk" button

this will help you quickly virtual boot ufd to test mbr etc.

ps:
ufd: usb flash disk


**
Memo: do not play with your hd mbr till you figure out what you are playing with. Play with an empty ufd or on virtual.

******
I hope it is easy for you to add grub4dos to your bootmgr and easily boot Gena...iso on hd, let us know your progress.

Good Luck



Edit Read current reply again for minor fixes/adds

Hi Lancelot,

Thank you for the suggestions! Yes, I am definitely going to try plop boot manager to activate usb 2.0 for my usb stick!

As of now I can boot various isos via grldr's menu.lst. It was a headache to create a \grldr entry in bcd. So I tried other way round and found surprisingly easy. As I already had bootmgr installed on virtual-toy-hdd, I just had to rename \grldr to \bootmgr . And of course edit \menu.lst .

I dumped 3 isos and they all are grub-booting very well.

Next step is replacing one of them with the wimfile I already created. Is there a tutorial? (What a question! :feeling-lazy:)

Thank you for your guidance and tips. :-)
-Gamma

Hi GSTT,

I just had to rename \grldr to \bootmgr . And of course edit \menu.lst .

All ways to boot 

I guess you can rename \bootmgr to \bootmyr and add to menut.lst ..... to boot vista etc.

Next step is replacing one of them with the wimfile I already created.

I advise not to.
If you do not use --mem option of Grub4dos, you do not have any advantage to boot wimfile.
eg.
with menu.lst at Gena\WriteMedia\"Tutorial Gena Disk Boot" Plugin
if you boot with
Gena_WIM.iso (0xFF) (hd0,0)

you should be booting fine without losing any memory with Bonus: Tidy and untouchable bootable environment (Gena_WIM.iso)

not using --mem option requires a contiguous file in the past (maybe still)

to make file contiguous, to boot without --mem,
 there are ready cmd files inside Gena\WriteMedia\"Tutorial Gena Disk Boot" Plugin --> \USB\ folder
eg.
Gena_WIM.iso_defrag.cmd

This way booting with Gena_WIM.iso only requires memory of the size of .wim file + os requirement. (not Gena_WIM.iso size + os requirement)

Tip:
If you use Gena\Finals\2 Create Image\"CreateISO"
-->
Gena.iso_defrag.cmd
---->
menu.lst Gena.iso without --mem
------->
You will need smallest ram requirement possible (Gena only requires  96 MB available RAM on such condition but 128 MB will be nicer  )



***
If you insist to boot .wim file
Extract ALL files from .iso to your hd
(not only .wim file)

Nearly All Projects around put files out of .wim as default to keep .wim file smaller ( so ram requirement small)

If you only extract .wim file from .iso, you will get warning etc. at boot.

There are also options on Projects to put everything inside wim ...

Well It will be better to practice this with a 2nd hd, or an empty partition on hd etc. or maybe usb (if plop works fine there)
ps: on my old pc I had a 2nd very old hd to practice such things in very past. 

You will find many tutorials and tools on internet to add .wim to bootmngr

internet search: add wim to bootmgr

eg. (not tested) https://neosmart.net/wiki/easybcd/basics/adding-entries/

Tip:
Latest Grub4dos chenall here:
http://grub4dos.chenall.net/
http://grub4dos.chenall.net/categories/downloads/

***
If you insist to boot .wim file
Extract ALL files from .iso to your hd
(not only .wim file)

Better to give more info about ALL :

+
There can be (or not) flag files at the root of iso, you need to figure out
+
It includes \GenaPrograms\ and \Programs\ folder and may also include \Program Files\ folder

\Program Files\  --> it is not a good idea to extract this to your systemdrive with windows
+
there can be \Boot\ folder which maybe good or bad to extrat to your systemdrive,
also
there can other files inside \Boot\ sub folders ...
+
how .iso created to make it bootable is another case,
if .iso created with grub4dos loader, probably not good idea to extract these files to your systemdrive since you also use grub4dos ....

so shortly:
As written before first experiment on an empty disk to figure out which files you need from iso ...
 After you figure out, it will be easy.

For a new user and even for regular users:
It is much easier to boot with .iso when possible. 
and
It is safer and easier to create a bootable empty drive (mostly ufd) by extracting .iso



Edit: again fixed current reply x2 

Hi Lancelot,

Thank you for your tips.

As long as the PE is quick, I really don't mind if it's iso or wim.  Didn't know what --mem option means. But now I know! Thanks for enlightening.

I've got 1gb ram. Gena iso can easily fit.

I've another problem. The wim file doesn't have normal (=win10xpe) structure. There is no \windows dir. Still, systemroot can be \i386 , but what do I put as ApplicationPath? Any idea?

Thanks!
-Gamma

Hi Gamma,

The wim file doesn't have normal (=win10xpe) structure. There is no \windows dir. Still, systemroot can be \i386 , but what do I put as ApplicationPath? Any idea?

I am not sure what you are asking,
as written before
Gena is PE1 (PE of NT5x (PE of XP / Win2003)  --> so it is normal you have \i386\ on PE1x86, it is always that way with PE1x86
Win10XPE is another project (PE of Win10) and this project has its own topics ...

Also better mention about Azin here http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=3052.0 which as default use WimBuilder to create PE of Win10 (nt10x)

If you create a plugin for Gena for your applications, both Azin and Gena use the same Plugins for ApplicationPath so I can help on this.
ps:
With other words, same plugin works with both Gena and Azin
eg.
My favorite Partition Manager Plugin
Apps\HD Tasks\"Active@ Partition Manager 6" I use both with Gena and Azin

!!!

ps: reminding I fixed things on my previous replies 

+
Tip:
You can extract Azin distribution to same folder with Gena
eg.
D:\Oven\BuildAzin.exe
D:\Oven\BuildGena.exe
...
This makes it easier to use Plugins between Projects and It is tidy to use single folder 

Hi Lancelot,

I am not sure what you are asking,

Haah! Even I am confused! 

Let me try out the iso on actual machine. I think it will work. Will keep posted!

Thanks for your help!
-Gamma

Hi Lancelot,

Yes! Old laptop booted. Got the iso into memory. Found how to call grub from windows bootmgr (source : http://microsaint.narod.ru/_Info_Grub4Dos/Grub4dos_tutorial.html ).

I never thought this old lazy slouch will work so fast! Thanks to you all.

A couple of problems though. First is wifi not working. I need to rip the driver files off from old Vista and add to the iso. Second problem is firefox does not start. It crashes straightway. I think it's a memory hog. I've got only 1 gb RAM. Maybe a portable old ff version will work...?

Once again a big thanks.

-Gamma

Progress Good   

Since you have a bootable PE now, maybe you consider installing XP/2003 to the disk as mentioned before for your goal (to ease using old pc)
 Generally, people create a new partition at the end of hd (I prefer using Active Disk Manager) and do things accordingly following tutorials (written previous post)
  At Vista Times people still installing os to single partition, after moving out holiday pictures videos etc.
  and after a defragment
    there is a lot of space at the end of disk enough to resize partition (from the end) and create new one to install xp/2003

Important:
You can make your ufd bootable (add bootmgr to your ufd) , after booting with ufd, you can boot with file (Gena...iso) at hd.
 This workaround your usb1.1. trouble
   and most important give you the ability to boot in case of a mistake. (It is very important when you deal with these things, be on safe side)

+
Gena also comes with WinNTSetup which can install XP/2003 after you boot.
WinNTSetup topic: http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1236.0


*
Gena comes with FireFox via Gena\Apps\Network\"Mozilla Firefox CR NT5x" Plugin (Just checked Gena_Meal_2020-01-07.zip)
 which works fine here.

I do not know how much memory left after you boot,
 FireFox is memory hungry and if you boot with grub4dos with --mem you east lots of memory ........

Still there are lightweight browser available,

First See: Downloading Plugins with a CodeBox

After you read short topic replies, here is QtWeb Plugin (2 files)

Code: [Select]

Call,DownloadX,"%BaseDir%\Projects\Yomi\AppY\Network\QtWeb.script"
Call,DownloadX,"%BaseDir%\Projects\Yomi\AppY\Network\QtWeb_x86_File.Packed"

Hi Lancelot,

Thanks for so much of info. 

Will try out plop boot from ufd.

About installing win 2003... not made up my mind yet. Actually I thought of using this old laptop as a Samsung Allshare Media Server. My Samsung TV is not a bespoke smart TV. It can share files only with a Samsung Allshare Server. I am thinking of using the old laptop for that. Can I install a program on x: drive and then capture its image? Then convert the captured image to iso. Does that work? I am going to try it. But I will do it tomorrow.   

Another question for you. Has someone ever tried to rdp into a WinPE ? I will be very much interested. I built a VNC enabled WinPE5, and it worked like a charm (source : https://configmgr2012.com/vnc-configmgr-and-winpe/). But rdp is the real catch. Has anyone attempted?

Thank you!
-Gamma

Hi Gamma,

"Remote Desktop Connection" Plugin already available with Gena and default enabled, I do not know why you disabled.

Some other Remote connect Plugins:

Call,DownloadX,"%BaseDir%\Projects\Yomi\AppY\Network\Remote Connect\AnyDesk.Script"
Call,DownloadX,"%BaseDir%\Projects\Yomi\AppY\Network\Remote Connect\Ammyy Admin v3.Script"
Call,DownloadX,"%BaseDir%\Projects\Yomi\AppY\Network\Remote Connect\TeamViewer06.Script"
Call,DownloadX,"%BaseDir%\Projects\Yomi\AppY\Network\Remote Connect\VNC_Real.script"

I like using old VNC to connect my pc at home via my phone.

ps: Same plugins works with Azin too http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=3052.0

*

Can I install a program on x: drive and then capture its image? Then convert the captured image to iso. Does that work? I am going to try it. But I will do it tomorrow.   

You need to create a plugin for Samsung Allshare Media Server .....
 or you need to create a kind of portable Samsung Allshare Media Server

   and you need to spend some more time to figure out things ...

As written before, life will be easier for you if you install xp/2k3 and later install Samsung Allshare Media Server to that.


**
For all cases, Better spend some time to figure out things, and it will be good if share your findings around. 

Have fun.

Hello Lancelot,

1.

   and you need to spend some more time to figure out things ...

Yes, I can see the need for me to move from consumer to a contributor's role. 

2.

You need to create a plugin for Samsung Allshare Media Server .....

I see. Let me begin with a simple plugin. Just to get a nack of the things.

3.

"Remote Desktop Connection" Plugin already available with Gena and default enabled, I do not know why you disabled.

Probably I oversaw that. My bad! 

Thanks for your guidance.
-Gamma

Let me begin with a simple plugin. Just to get a nack of the things.

Latest
Utils\PC Packed (Plugin Creator Packed) plugin available with Azin, Gena and SE projects,

Utils\PC Packed (Plugin Creator Packed) --> http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=178.0

just spend some time to practice. 

+
Also, update Gena with
Utils\Update Gena (Exact and Secure)

There are some improvements in that area (PC Packed)
 to simplify instructions better to update the project to avoid any confusion.

Thanks a lot, Lancelot! 

I appreciate your help. Will try to build 'Hello World' plugin. Let me see how it goes.

Thanks once again!
-Gamma