Drivers: Invalid access to memory location + FAQ + Apps + hd install + (no)RAM

Hi everybody,

First of all congrats for all the PE/RE projects. As you have seen I started contributing to the forum some months ago into the WinXshell topic.

Well, today I tried WIN10PESE for the first time and I have some doubts:

It's the fist time I build a Win10PESE and I'm not sure if I have done something wrong or I didn't select a necessary component on the Builder but I have problems with drivers and applications, ok about the applications maybe isn't compatible with all applications but it's strange.. because I'm not trying to run any big/specific applications, only some Portable Apps I have in a folder which aren't less than <50MB.

Maybe all the problems are the same: a missing component or some checkbox not checked on the builder, I don't know because I'm a new user. But I read the FAQs and New User FAQs, and also some Driver installation topics and I'm not sure if I'm understanding how it all works.

My doubts

About DRIVERS:

I have not included any driver in the Builder. It is possible to install after I boot WIN10PESE? 

I tried:

- In device manager, right click update driver and I always I get: "Invalid access to memory location" Ok, as I know all these WinPE/RE projects are running into a system reserved memory location and as a RAM OS. Right?
Well, this is what I thought first. Then I thought it could be WMI not present or any other required windows component, so I looked what's checked in the Builder by default but seems necessary components for Driver Installation are checked.. So I go back to the forum and searched for an application to install drivers, then I found "DriverSod" and tried installing my graphics card .cab driver file. But nothing happens.

So it's possible or not to install driver on the fly? (After the PE boot)

About APPLICATIONS:

I tried, to run some of my portable apps in hdd to see what happens, and also I tried with a big one: Photoshop CC, I saw a window popup asking for a missing required file, so I copied to system32 and Photoshop starts. Ok.

But I can't run applications like Iron / Chrome, Iris, EasyBCD, SoftMaker Office.. (random apps I tried)

In some of the applications I tried I get: "The instruction at ************** referenced memory at **************. The memory could not be read. Click on OK to terminate the program." In others I don't get any error message.

I know this is not a full windows, but I can't find information related to that on the FAQ.

_____________

Ok, about the drivers memory error, and the applications giving memory error I ended thinking it could be because of the limitation of running all loaded in a reserved memory location in RAM.

So I searched for this in the FAQ:
Q: Can I use these projects as "undamageable" windows kind  ?
Q: How to install SE to hd ? 

And one of the answers are: "It maybe better create a Portable Windows like WinNTSetup".  I have experience converting OSes to WinToGo, but I'm not sure if the answer of the question it's telling the possibility to convert the WinPE to a WindowsToGo so you can made and save changes in every boot or if it's only saying the only way to have a modificable WinPE installed on hd is the alternative which is Windows To Go.

I tried myself this: _ttps://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/winpe-install-on-a-hard-drive--flat-boot-or-non-ram

(dism /Apply-Image /ImageFile:"C:\WinPE_amd64\media\sources\boot.wim" /Index:1 /ApplyDir:P:\)

But didn't boot the second time after I made some changes and reboot. Don't know why. (I only added two shortcuts to desktop to see what happens) I realized it also creates the RAM DISK.

Well, at this moment I can seem like I'm a new user without experience. But what I really don't have is experience in WinPE, WinRE and RAM DISK.

I have experience in modded versions of w8 & w10 OS, windows reg tweaks, classic themes + DWM tweaks for less gpu usage, batch scripts, winlogon tweaks, basic inf modding, bootmanagers, vhds, efi shell, gpt, mbr and legacy/uefi boot.

______________

So considering all I said, I'm currently interested in installing drivers, running Chrome/IRON in the WIN10PESE it's a must for me. And also I need to understand if it's possible to run the WIN10PESE from HDD instead of RAM OS or any option to made changes on it.

And is there any option to see what's preventing some application from running?

Hi Welcome to the forum.

About Drivers:
The easiest way to install manually drivers after boot I have ever found is SDI

https://sdi-tool.org/download/

It creates automatically indexes load  drivers and put them online without restart...
it also supports unattended installations. you can give it a try see if it load in your build.
Also for video cards to load you must not select MS Basic display drivers.
Also read carefully info for driversod once you get how it works it's a pretty complete cmd
driver management solution. windows PE3 need way more ram to work than his predecessors.
4 gig of ram is the least you need to boot properly. Mine crashes under that.

about apps:
Some portable apps need additional support to work.. Try to find plugins to install instead
And also looks like a not enough  memory issue. PE cant' tell if your program fits before attempting to load it.
So if there not enough memory the app or PE will simply crash.

Can I use these projects as "undamageable" windows kind  ?
If you use it from a read only media it will be "undamageable". From
a writable source damage can always occur but the boot.wim is pretty safe.

How to install SE to hd ?  Simply create a Primary Partition make it active and copy the whole content of y: to it.

You can create a look-a-like wintogo by redirecting user profile or by creating a Flat install of PESE.
use Build Normal from Main configuration. Standard boot loader. Flat installation are unbearably slow from usb drives,
Using redirection is preferable. Flat installs from SSD's are flying really fast and is my way to go.

hth

Hi Malok,

I'm currently testing it on 4GB of RAM, may I fix application errors/crashing if I add a pagefile using this plugin: "Add Swap File (PageFile) to disk by Olof" ? So I will have virtual memory, right?

Regards

Yes, but i'm not sure if it will help at this point.
maybe try to integrate chipset drivers could help, honestly the last time i had this kind of behaviour with my build.
I deleted everything and started back from scratch...

But there are drivers that fails to work correctly and bsod or are erratic.
trying different revision of the driver can help sometimes. but most of the time integrating chipset storage and usb drivers put
more chances on your side at boot-up. and you will still have an expanded image under 2 gigs. so it should work with 4 gigs of ram
Make sure that you use the right architecture. If you are creating a PE for one Machine only... integrate all drivers is the way to go
anyway they end up taking same amount of memory once booted and it's a lot faster.

Also try your compilation on a different computer to see if the problem is inherent to your build or the host computer. this could help certify that you have
a driver problem.

Hi lenug,

about adding drivers after boot, There is a nice topic by Malok here
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=3043.0

*
About EasyBCD, I guess you need to enable .Net Plugin,

since you seem to be after a close to full feature WinPE,
Probably better these plugins
Components\"Common components" Plugin
Components\".Net Framework" Plugin (EasyBCD)
Maybe also enable
Components\"DirectX 11 & 12" Plugin
Components\"PowerShell Core" Plugin
Components\"Vss" Plugin

Keep
Drivers\"Driver Integration" Plugin enabled even without adding drivers,
also keep
Drivers\"DrvInstPatch" Plugin enabled

This will ease after boot adding drivers easier.

*
random apps you tried are not simple applications  ,
 they are more suitable for normal windows or windows portable to get them to work out of box,
   as written by Malok you need (or create) a plugin to get them work on PE.

*
WindowsPE and WindowsPortable are 2 different things,

Here we confront using WinPE environment, which "looks like" WindowsPortable, but it is not,
 many end users have too high expectations since they think WinPE is yet another Windows with name PE ..
  using PE comes with some limitations ...
    That is the reason only an "optimal" set of plugins enabled for PE since most prefer small but effective PE ....

after spending some time with practice you will figure out.

*
For WindowsPortable I had preferred booting via .vhd and creating page file with  "Add Swap File (PageFile) to disk by Olof" will work there too.
 (last time I remember, WindowsPortable with vhd boot have no pagefile, but you can add pagefile with Olof tool)

ps:
My way, use fast ssd ufd which is hd for windows, create vhd boot... and after boot add pagefile (swapfile) to the root of fast ssd...

+
Because of the difference,
There is an opposite way of development with WindowsPE and WindowsPortable
on WindowsPE people try to add something up to point that comforts them (up to optimum point one like)
on WindowsPortable people remove something  up to point that comforts them (up to optimum point one like)

one thing fine with WindowsPortable, one can backup vhd file, which make it secure in case of emergency.
(that is the reason I like vhd way, but requires fast disk since vhd is big)

*
As written by Malok with reason,
 FlatBoot of PE not preferred much,
  everybody is very happy booting PE from image (boot.wim) and portable apps out (with drive letter Y:)
    which makes PE small and secure and portable apps easy to update when required.

**

Yes I remember you from WinXshell topic 

after spending some time with practice you will figure out, as written on FAQ topic spend some time.

If using PECMD.exe, add next lines to PECMD.ini

IFEX C:\pagefile.sys, PAGE C:\pagefile.sys 4096 4096
IFEX D:\pagefile.sys, PAGE D:\pagefile.sys 4096 4096

If both pagefile's found, both will be used.

Lot of thanks, I'm gonna try it!   

Hi lenug,

Some additional info:

*
There is
Win10PESE\Shell\"2 - WinXShell" Plugin, not updated for a long while now (Bob.Omb is not around  )
 AFTER you practice and get familiar with things with projects, you can work on getting things better. 

*
There is
Win10PESE\"Update Win10PESE (Exact and Secure)" Plugin to update project by synchronizing files on the server,
Win10PESE\"Update Win10PESE (Exact and Secure)" Plugin --> "Update (Download + Copy)" Button

This helps to get the latest Plugins of projects without downloading a big zip file.

*
with Projects with Plugin support, you can use the same Plugins out of the box (without convert etc.) with other Projects
eg.
See Reply 5 http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=3068.msg36672#msg36672

"LibreOffice paf" Plugin works fine with  Gena Win7PESE Win8PESE Win8.SE Win10PESE Azin (WimBuilder & LiveSystemPro)

I use the same Plugins for 10 years and more, only update them from time to time following new things.

*
You can use WinNTSetup to create vhd boot WindowsPortable
WinNTSetup Topic: http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1236.0
and a related topic: http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1477.0


Have Fun

Interesting, thanks I will take a look & play with all of this.

Currently I have some questions, aren't not directly related to WIN10PESE but are related to WinPE world

- It is possible to login as SYSTEM user in a regular Windows installation or it's only available in WinPE mode?
- It is possible to boot a regular Windows installation into Win PE mode? maybe changing some of the following keys?

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\Setup\SystemSetupInProgress
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\WinPE
HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\MiniNT
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\system\currentcontrolset\control\PEBootType (PE2)
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\system\currentcontrolset\control\PEFirmwareType (PE4)

Thanks

Regards

- It is possible to use an Insider Preview build before W10 10240 RTM?

Test and let us know. 

- It is possible to login as SYSTEM user in a regular Windows installation or it's only available in WinPE mode?

It seems you need to learn more about SYSTEM user account 

- It is possible to convert a regular Windows installation to Win PE mode changing the following keys?

%99 yes, but not tested for a long while around, let us know your test results.


**

Interesting, thanks I will take a look & play with all of this.

Some words for your google search to clear the confusion with SYSTEM  :

+
on Windows:
PE boots without Login (without user) as a result windows starts (fall back) with SYSTEM account
another eg. Windows Safe Mode
(both PE and Windows Safe Mode boots without login --> SYSTEM account ... well there is login process but I am simplifying to clear understanding )
It is not a user like root on linux/unix (android) ,
 It seems ms decide to create SYSTEM as OS account (not user) to be used by only OS not user
  and OS can do everything on OS 

+
Since ms did not create SYSTEM for users, there are some limitations.....
  and on PE world people workaround these limitations ..... (workaround both ms-pe limitations along with SYSTEM limitations)

     eg. explorer never available on pe by ms since first pe1, after some time passed with pe1 (with 3rd party shells) people figure out starting explorer (eg. Gena ;))

+
I did not experiment with Windows-Portable much these days,
 Life is easier to use Administrator account and use some applications with SYSTEM privileges when required on Portable Windows.
  (eg. via NSUDO or start cmd.exe with SYSTEM privileges or using nircmd ....... you will find on internet)

It would be fun time to
- Prepare Windows-Portable with autologon Administrator
- cut down things to boot faster (most fun part I guess)
- add some registry tweaks etc.

*****
Overall spend a long time to play with all this stuff, I am sure you will learn many useful things.

Keep in mind,
 PE is not Portable Windows (PE projects comfort PE up to a limit, that is all)
 PE is not comfortable like Normal Windows.

After playing & learning period, move on to the path you choose up to your goals.