Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8

Hi Lancelot

I should have been more clear. This is a continuation of my post http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=526.msg8715#msg8715

XP SP3 Source with "Small core" build selected ( default ) - Can't create a new partition. We will get the infamous "The partition or volume is not enabled" message.

XP SP3 source with "small core build" deselected -  Result is same when creating a new partition- "The partition or volume is not enabled" message. Only deleting works. Also GPT disks can't be accessed because XP 32 bit doesn't have GPT support.

XP SP3 with Disk.Sys from Win2003 -  GPT disks can be accessed ( 2TB+ probably won't work). But creating a new partition in neither MBR nor in GPT disk is possible. Only deleting existing partitions are possible.

2003 Source with Small Core build selected ( default ) - Supports GPT disks but creating a new partition results in the  "The partition or volume is not enabled" message

2003 Source with Small core build deselected - Works perfectly. Can delete, create and manage both MBR and GPT disks ( 2 TB + disks probably won't be supported ).

Just wanted to bump this excellent and very clear post by Anshad. I must admit I had forgotten some of the details (sorry, I was the OP after all), but for my "newly discovered" Gena usb, I will now document the fact that I should use my 2003 source with small core deselected. I have a spare laptop hd laying around, I will build it into a test laptop, and will test the bajeebers out of diskmanagement now...
Thanks again anshad!

Hi Atari800xl,

as mentioned on other topic,
"small core deselected" may not be required anymore....

since recently I figured out "Removable Devices Combo" is one of the missing thing with latest dps packs


shortly: first test with "2k3 source" + "Removable Devices Combo" + "small core selected" + "latest plugins from server"
+ "mmc diskmanagement"
see how things goes when creating new partitions through windows disk management ??????

if you don't get "The partition or volume is not enabled" message than mystery solved.......

Besides, as a personal rule, I advice not to use Gena Diskmanagement anymore 

Lancelot, I was just doing some testing as you wrote your reply.

I've had a first result: Build with 2003 source, "Small core" not selected. Built a spare HD into a laptop, hd has 3 primary partitions, two of them hidden. Start disk management, p1 and p2 of the disk were hidden. I wanted to delete p2 (worked), then create a new partition (did not work). Even after explorer refresh, even after reboot, no new partition possible, not even with Bootice. Something was messed up. OK, at least I know that for sure now! (I will document ALL of this).

Next build is already running, testing build with Active@ Partition Manger 1. After that there are many more alternatives, please hold for more tests. EDIT: Active Partition Manager can create new primary partition just fine, could not attach letter C: in my quick test. But then standard disk management *could* set letter C:, so this setup works for now. [will test with WinNTSetup] More tests later...)

Of course I'd love to test your new "Removable Devices Combo" tip as well!!!!
[EDIT: I see I already had "Removable Devices Combo" set to *on*! It was v19, will check for newer...]

for adding letters,
there is MounStorPE already at
Removable Devices Combo

you can add it to startup or start it after you boot or play with partitions, it will give new drive letters it finds 

we removed it from startup in the past because when disk driver partially works (not work ;), WS_SES USB3.0 disks )
 MounStorPE naturally try to give letter but fails, during which Gena hangs badly ... (very rare case ;))
   Still very useful tool at hand 

Hi all,

I just noticed new disk.sys v5.2.3790.4006

renamed GPTSupport plugin to Update_DiskSys and made required adjustments...

maybe it change some of test results  sadly I am running out of time after a lot of updates / tests .....

Have fun

Thank you Lancelot, very nice of you to update so much harddisk related stuff for Gena.
As I've said before, I still create a new XP iso every month (OnePiece FinalXP pack, and POSUpdatesAddon), for that iso I still use version 10.06, I never really thought about newer versions, because I don't really plan on using XP on hardware newer than 2010 (use it mostly for 2000-2010 PC's - lots of laptops these days!), but reading your "Nightlies" posts, I guess I could/ should try newer versions sometimes. Again, thanks for the tip.

I hope I can find some time as well (holidays almost over) to test all your nice stuff (Update_DiskSys first!), I also have to tell you that not having Acronis in Gena bugs me a bit... There are some scripts around, but none of them are working for me, so I would love to hear from somebody who has either (1) Acronis program files to go with an older script [like this one: http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=150.0 ] or (2) A script for newer version (2014, 32bit only is fine with me).
I feel like I "understand" (a bit) what's going on in the win7pese and later Acronis scripts, but I must admit I have no clue about the Gena/PE1.x stuff. Oh well, I will just let it sit for a while...

So, a lot of progress was made in this field, thanks again Lancelot, you can take a well-deserved rest now...

[EDIT: I downloaded WindowsServer2003-KB914961-SP2-x86-ENU.exe, extracted disk.sys from it, it was 5.2.3790.3959?!]

Sorry Lancelot, one thing I wanted to ask you...
After Anshad told me he still likes Gena/PE1.x for some special tasks, I was wondering if you have any idea about how many people still use it? Have you checked any Gena download statistics, or are you on any other forums where you can get an idea on its usage? Maybe this is a bit too much of a "chatty" topic, so better be brief  but I would like to hear your thoughts on this.
You must remember I said before that "everybody" should have a PE USB in their pocket at all times, but to me it seems the younger generation is really dumbing down, nobody either *has* a PC anymore, or if they do, they're not interested in their "inner" workings at all.

[EDIT: I downloaded WindowsServer2003-KB914961-SP2-x86-ENU.exe, extracted disk.sys from it, it was 5.2.3790.3959?!]

there also extract batch inside plugin with provide button .... disk.sys file under \SP2QFE\ folder ...

*
As I had written recently with 3 key points, Acronis is not impossible only takes time to create a plugin 

*
I don't know, Gena zip download numbers are there ;)
 we never made publicity around internet (only an announcement topic on msfn) ,
  and when we start Gena , there already was Win7PESE popular,
   we also supported Win7PESE on organisations you are easly using now... time passed Win8PESE Win8.1SE...
        Still Gena is the only living PE1 with features 

Better you and anshad write other forums / pages / blogs about Gena 
  you 2 are more tech guys than us 



They get younger and younger and dumping down, or you get older and wiser 
Or new OS's are wiser 

disk.sys file under \SP2QFE\ folder ...

Found it, thanks! In my excitement, I forgot how to extract the hotfix (tried to extract it with 7zip, like the service pack) )

They get younger and younger and dumping down

Nice Freudian slip...

"small core deselected" may not be required anymore....
.......
shortly: first test with "2k3 source" + "Removable Devices Combo" + "small core selected" + "latest plugins from server"
+ "mmc diskmanagement"
see how things goes when creating new partitions through windows disk management ??????

I tested with 2k3 source, removable devices combo, small core, disk.sys 5.2.3790.4006: NO GO...
Tested again, small core *not* selected: SUCCESS!!!!

Ha! Never expected to get my favorite workflow working with standard disk management in Gena (of course, it's not *that* standard anymore with all these enhancements). Still, I can delete any of 3 primary partitions, create new, add drive letter (letter C:, when I want to use WinNTSetup to install "any" OS), etc. etc. NICE!!!

 

I hope one day mystery solved, I am pretty sure it will be solved with 1-2 MB, but I don't have time ....
 well since I don't use Gena disk management anymore (safe side) it is fine to me using small core , mountstor etc.
  maybe this new disk.sys solve another trouble, time will show 



btw,
Gena\Components\Tweaks\Remove Floppy ALL Mount Point 'BL MountVol'

have feature to remount a drive letter to another value, C: 
 I requested such utility from BlueLife that times for same reason now with you, remounting to C: easly 



If you follow tutorial here for a SE project (ex: Win8.1SE )
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1146.msg13355#msg13355
you will notice at
Win8.1SE\ComponentsG\Tweaks\Remove Floppy A Mount Point

not only Apps plugins are intercompatible 

ps: "Remove Floppy A Mount Point" is nice for old hardwares, see  interface info





**
at very begining of Mr.& Mrs smith car chase scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w0Zbwys23A
(not at that youtube)
When Brad first get into the car, there was a young hitman, he override and said
.......... ?
maybe you are more lucky than me on internet .



**
Have fun on projects
 

Hmmm, I must admit I don't understand most of that, I'm just glad I have my two options now: My localized XP source (with Active@ Partition Manager 1), or English-US 2003 source with "some tweaks" ("non-small" build, new disk.sys, etc.) with standard disk management.
Topic's done/ solved.

Young ones can't read long writes,
what happened to education system 

Topic's done/ solved.

Partially   

If one find what is missing on small core build, all will gain lots of MB 
Needs a patient detective who have time 

See You

for adding letters,
there is MounStorPE already at
Removable Devices Combo

you can add it to startup or start it after you boot or play with partitions, it will give new drive letters it finds 

I can confirm that. If MSPE is added to startup, it will take care of drive letter assignments automatically - especially useful if either "Active PM" or "Partition Wizard" is used to change existing partition structure . I would also suggest selecting the "-rl" switch to prevent PE from assigning letters to empty card readers.

If MSPE is added to "Win8PE_SE" startup, it will assign letters to hidden "EFI System Partition", "WinRE" and "Recovery" partitions which is not possible with "Disk Management". Very useful when servicing newer Desktop/Laptop which came 8.x pre-installed. In SE projects, you will find MSPE in "Components\Hotplug" script.

Thanks for another great tip, anshad (and Lancelot, of course). It will surely come in handy sometimes.

For my normal "workflow", I only need a letter for the (WinNTSetup) install partition, the others are better left "unassigned" (2 of the 3 primary partitions are hidden by Grub4Dos anyway, I like each OS independent from the other). Data partition driveletters are handled by my Postinstall (based on label, eg. "Data" -> "D:", etc).
But as I said, it's a great tip, specially for the EFI stuff...

One thing I wanted to add about the diskmanagement stuff: For my own documentation, I wanted to look at the difference between small build and "none-small". For me personally, I will make a choice between these two:
(1) Gena with small build, XP source (localized language), needs 3rd party diskmanagement
(2) Gena with non-small, 2003 source (ENU), no 3rd party needed.
To my surprise, memory usage of (2) was even smaller than (1), I expected this to be the other way around, but I guess the 2003 source is more memory efficient?

One thing I wanted to add about the diskmanagement stuff: For my own documentation, I wanted to look at the difference between small build and "none-small". For me personally, I will make a choice between these two:
(1) Gena with small build, XP source (localized language), needs 3rd party diskmanagement
(2) Gena with non-small, 2003 source (ENU), no 3rd party needed.
To my surprise, memory usage of (2) was even smaller than (1), I expected this to be the other way around, but I guess the 2003 source is more memory efficient?

I am not sure about the memory usage but i would certainly recommend to use a third party partitioning tool instead of "Disk management" whether you use XP or 2003 as source. "NT 5" family OS ( XP, 2003 etc ) will always create partitions "Cylinder Aligned" while NT6 family prefers "MB Aligned" partitioning. While Nt6 family "Disk Management" is backward compatible and supports editing partitions created by XP/2003, it is highly not recommended to use XP/2003 to edit partition table created by "Vista/7/8" or Nt6 based PE. It may result in partition table corruption.

Source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_Disk_Manager

Compatibility problems with using a 1-MiB alignment boundary

Extended partition tables that are edited with Vista Disk Management should not be edited with Windows XP Disk Management. XP Disk Management may delete these extended partitions without warning. One way to correct these mixed partition tables is to delete all partitions (reboot or reconnect drive) and use only one partition editor on the drive.

   

Thanks again anshad, this topic seems to cover most issues now.
In daily use, this will not come up a lot anyways, but it's great to have this topic to come back to.
For me peronally, this issue will only come up if I have to build a harddisk from a newer (Vista or later) laptop into an old older XP laptop. At least I have the option to boot with Gena now and create a new partition structure. If things screw up, I know where it must have gone wrong and know how to fix it, thanks to all your great help.
[To be honest: I will use Win7pese mostly anyways, at least I know exactly where/when problems will arise with NT5]
 

Hi Atari800xl,

some problems rise because of your not following infos already around ;)
 this is one of them
  mmc diskmanagement disabled as default and above info already at mmc interface (it becomes pure hobby to us)
  2003 is better, info already on mmc interface - weblink and Gena support which sources topic http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=34.0

since you manually select Gena diskmanagement from mmc plugin interface, you should have already read them....

and once you read them, 2) is obvious choice, no need to ask..

Follow the things already written around

as long as 3rd party diskmanagement used, there seem to me no problem with Gena on new hardwares

Hi anshad,

thanks for reminding, I update with default desktop rl switch 

+
can you inform, with small build, 2k3, and 3rd party disk management, is there any problem ?

+
about 2TB, JFX had already wrote Reply #24 tested and working with 3TB ,
let us know your results when you have >2TB




++++++++++++++ as a pure hobby with a lot available time ++++

Although we don't use mmc diskmanagement, (in fact I never use windows diskmanagement in my all life)
If you have time one day, as a pure hobby (with 2k3):
+
Please dig down this disk letter thing with small-big 2k3 builds,
 it would be easy to compare with small # selected plugins (only basic + mmc diskmanagement + create iso)
  I feel some .sys and a txtsetup.sif required ...  but requires a lot time ?

+
If you have a loooot hoby time check conditions and see if this helps
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=526.msg8655#msg8655


++++++++++++++ as a pure hobby with a lot available time ++++

Google TheOven

Hi Lancelot

I just downloaded, updated and checked the latest Gena package. At first i got an error message at verifying script dependencies. The error message is about missing "fbwf.sys" and "fbwflib.dll" which is needed for "Create ISO" script. I always use "Wimboot" so i guess it's a bug which needs to be fixed.






As a workaround, i disabled the dependencies verifications on "preppe" and the build completed without errors. "Disk management" is still no go with small core but i don't use it anyway mainly due to incompatibilities with "MB aligned" logical partitions.

New DpsMassstorage beta update is interesting. I will check Gena on newer systems with newer chipsets and report back after a couple of days  .